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Discussed this episode:

• Danielle’s relationship with feminism
• Going from containing her true voice to owning her gifts
• Being a digital nomad and how that helped Danielle find her voice
• What’s missing when marginalized voices are kept off the stage
• Changes in the speaking industry since 202
• Barriers people with marginalized identities face in getting booked for speaking gigs
• Networking as a path to creating your own stage
• Confidence vs. safety re: networking
• Conditioning that holds people back from getting visible
• Tips for managing feelings of inadequacy
• Advice for allies on how to diversify speaking lineups
• A warning about asking “diverse” speakers to only speak to “diverse” issues
• The most important first step in getting more speaking gigs
• The power of an “evidence list”
• Ideas for creating your own stage
• Differences amongst the three most common types of speaking coaches and experts
• Choosing the right coach or expert for you

 

Resources mentioned:

• Expansive Thought Leadership Coaching
• ProfessionalSpeakerWebsites.com
• “Professional Troublemaker” by Luvvie Ajayi Jones
• Black Speakers Network from Brian J. Olds
• “Do Less” by Kate Northrup
• “Speak Up, The Ultimate Guide to Dominate in the Speaking Industry”
• First Stop in Huntsville, AL

 

Learn more about accountability coaching with host Becky Mollenkamp at https://beckymollenkamp.com

Becky Mollenkamp:

Hello, Danielle. Thank you for being on the show with me.

 

Danielle Tucker:

Hi, Becky. Thank you for having me. I am so excited for our conversation. It’s going to be a good one.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I think so too. And I’m going to start out the way I’m starting out with all of these conversations, which is asking people to tell me about their relationship with the word feminist. What does it mean to you? What has it meant to you? How do you sort of define it for yourself? Or do you reject it entirely, which is also a very valid answer. So tell me what you feel about it.

 

Danielle Tucker:

The word feminist, it takes on a number of different meanings for me. When I think about growing up, the word feminist really didn’t, I didn’t really have any relationship with it. It was actually something that I felt was kind of avoided. And just to give you a little background about myself, I was born in Florida. I attended a predominantly white, private, very conservative school. and rock and roll and hip hop are the devil’s music, that type of scenario. So it was very much a controlled and contained environment where your individual expression was not something that was welcomed and certainly not if you were a woman or someone who identifies as a woman, like that was not acceptable. And so for me, being as a child, The idea of even entertaining the word of feminist or feminism was something that was to be avoided. And now as an adult, thinking about my own journey and what that looks like, even though those experiences as a child were very challenging and very difficult, it’s helped me to see different areas of myself that I can really challenge myself and see, to a more powerful, more confident version of myself. And so feminist for me now would be just confidence, being comfortable in whatever scenario, whatever room I’m in, and choosing to take a level of self ownership to be confidently the best version of who I am as a woman.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Well, thank you for sharing that. And I know what you’re doing today around helping with branding and speaking for thought leaders of color and really sort of going down that avenue. But that hasn’t where you’ve always been. Right. You’ve been, that’s sort of been shifting. And I love this that I found on your LinkedIn, one of the stories you shared, which was that you said you’re ‘not created to be contained.’ And that when you think back on your early entrepreneur days, you remember ‘all the moments you felt silently toned down for my, for your light and for the, or when you silently tone down your light for the convenience and comfort of others. And I wonder if you could just share a little bit about that. What has been kind of your professional journey and what did that mean to you in those early days where you were silently toning yourself down?

 

Danielle Tucker:

For everyone listening, a lot of the work that I do is with empowering thought leaders of color to really elevate their brand, elevate their presence so that they can be seen, heard, lavishly celebrated and highly paid to speak and share their message with the world. And so for me, in the work that I do, I find a lot of inspiration from my own story, from my own experiences and the things that I overcome. When I say that you’re not created to be contained, I think of it from a place of being a woman, a woman of color. There is this undertone or there’s even like this deconditioning that we have to go through, and really being comfortable with recognizing that there are some moments where we may have been conditioned to not feel safe or not feel like we can use our voice in really intentional ways. And with me sharing about how I feel like it’s important to know that you’re not meant to be contained, you were never designed to be contained, it’s really a sense of self-ownership and really self-empowerment to know that your voice is powerful and you can step into a better version of yourself that you truly desire to see. And so, from my own experiences, I would say there was a lot of just comparison with others, feeling like I had to emulate or copy what I was seeing other people do in order to fit in or in order to feel like I could be someone who was trusted because that’s what I saw somebody else doing, maybe who I admired or maybe that I saw other people admire. And so this really played into how I was showing up within my business, how I was showing up online, even with how I was carrying myself or presenting myself. But the moment that I truly began to do some internal self-reflection, and looking deep within myself and like, okay, what do I want, who am I, what is it that I want to do, what impact do I want to create? The moment that I started to be really intentional in my self-reflection and self-ownership was when I really was like, okay, no more of this wishy-washy, copy what everyone else is doing. What is my voice? What is it that I want to bring to the world? And I think that’s a really important moment that everyone should have whenever it comes to being a change maker within whatever capacity that you work in.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I know you did a lot of traveling and living abroad. I’m wondering if any of that experience informed some of that transformation for you or that awakening in you of wanting to finally say, no, I’m gonna own my voice for all that it is. I’m not going to tone it down anymore.

 

Danielle Tucker:

My traveling started in 2015. My story is kind of people are wondering when they hear my story, they’re often like, okay, what she did what like, seriously. So just graduated from my university, my husband and I got married three months later, sold everything we had and booked one-way tickets to South Africa. So at this point, we were planning to be 100% digital nomads, we were not coming back stateside any time in the near future. And this was also a time where I did not do a lot of in-person, face-to-face networking with a lot of the people who are my clients within my business. And so it was very, it felt very isolating. It was, it’s interesting because it felt very isolating, but at the same time, I was technically pursuing a dream that I felt like I had to travel to see the world, to experience well-rounded in that way of celebrating different cultures. And at the same time, in the midst of that, I started to find this really interesting place of doing business online, doing online networking, like doing all the things. And I would say communicating and connecting with people in a virtual type of setting, even though it was difficult, of gratitude for what is possible whenever it comes to using your voice and why it’s so important. Because it’s one thing to connect with someone face to face in person, but it’s another thing to be able to truly connect with someone virtually. Like a completely different skill set, completely different experience. And so through the different experiences I had with traveling and also through the experiences I had with connecting with people online, It gave me a really unique perspective to where, you know, it gave me a perspective to where I really started to value how important it is to use your voice. And not only that, to share the experiences that you have because it can really help to shift someone’s belief, it can help to give someone inspiration for wherever they are in their life. And also I’ll say, Becky, at one point, I was actually kind of embarrassed about my story because everyone’s journey is different, every founder’s journey is different. When what you see online oftentimes can be so glamorized and so, you know, celebrated, like so many people always love to share the glamorous side of things. And so traveling, being a digital nomad at the time was not always glamorous. And there were a lot of parts of my story that I felt embarrassed to share with people. But what I found was that in those really trying and challenging times, those were actually the moments and the lessons that were the most inspiring to people, that would help to encourage someone or help them to see like, oh wow, well if you could do that then I can surely do this, you know? So that’s what I would say in terms of like traveling and how that’s really played into my perspective with using my voice and speaking up about what’s important.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Well, and some of what we’re gonna talk about in a minute, and I don’t wanna get too much into that yet, but we’re gonna talk a little bit about the barriers that people face and the challenges that people face when it comes to owning and using their voice and how those can be magnified when you have any identity that is a marginalized identity, whether that’s a woman or a woman of color, all of these different identities that people hold that can really affect how they feel about using their voice and what they’ve been allowed to do. So, without going too much into that, I’m curious for you, like, I’m sure that, especially since I hear you say you came from this real conservative background and in an environment that was predominantly white, I’m curious for you, I don’t know if the trip to Africa specifically was something that helped or if there were other things, but I’m wondering, like, what helped you sort of break some of those barriers for yourself? Because I’m sure that you faced the same challenges we’re going to talk about.

 

Danielle Tucker:

Traveling to Africa was very eye-opening. So we traveled to South Africa, Botswana, Malawi. So every country within Africa had its own unique flavor, and they were all very different. And also we lived in Ecuador for six years. Yeah, we lived in Ecuador. So just being around different cultures, being around different people who were raised differently is an extremely humbling experience because I think it’s easy to kind of be in your own bubble and to think you know everything, to think that we’ve experienced all that the world could possibly have to offer. And then when you get in someone else’s, you know, domain, when you get into their world it’s very humbling because you realize just how much you really don’t know. And so being in that place to where I could immersed within other people’s cultures or be in someone else’s home or break bread with someone and just like truly listen and hear from their experiences I think was eye-opening from a perspective of like seeing the world differently but also for me it really helped to cultivate a practice of self-reflection and really questioning a lot of what I thought I knew and what was told to me. Oftentimes, it’s really easy to just go along with what you’re told growing up or what society says is available to you. But when you make the conscious decision to go outside of those barriers and really see with your own eyes and experience with your own body what is really out there, it opens the door to really create a completely different outcome. And I think one of the biggest things is just really, for anyone, just really being willing to experience something that is completely different than anything you’ve ever been used to because when we’re in that place to where we may be uncomfortable or we may not know exactly all of the ABCs of how something works it’s a very humbling experience but it also teaches us to really question like what is true and what is not. How can we change the reality that is portrayed in front of us and how can we continue to make even bigger impact wherever we are.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I’ve traveled, especially when I was younger, I got to travel a lot. And I just wish that there was a way to have that privilege be available for everyone, including those who don’t have privilege, to be able to travel at least out of their state, but ideally out of their country and go see other cultures because it really does shift things for you when you start to realize so many of these lies you’ve been told are in fact lies and that humans are humans are humans. We’re all humaning wherever we are and we’re more alike than we are different in so many ways. And so eye opening to have those experiences most of us don’t get, a lot of people don’t get that. And so I wondered if the travel, I would imagine it would play a big part of that. And I’m curious because your background is in branding and building websites and things like that for people. And I don’t know how recent the shift has been, but from what I can tell you’re kind of in this process of really shifting and narrowing down on really trying to help people of color specifically when it comes to standing out, understanding their branding, using their voice. So what has it been about that audience and serving that audience that has like called to you? What is that shift about for you?

 

Danielle Tucker:

So I have been in the personal branding space since 2015 and it was in 2018 that I really decided to double down and commit to the speaking industry, and specifically supporting thought leaders of color who are looking to really stand out and be highly paid to speak. So this is something that I’ve been doing for quite some time in terms of owning that that’s what I do and like putting it out there, especially with my own brand messaging, this is something that I’ve really taken more ownership of this year. You can see it all throughout my work. You can see it with my clients. You can see it on the outside from a visual perspective, but I think messaging is also a really big part of it. So there’s that. And then my biggest reason for doing the work that I do is that I oftentimes would have people come to me and say wow, it feels really good to have someone who understands the speaking industry who looks like me. And the interesting thing is that within the speaking industry, about 78% of speakers are all white, which leaves a 22% to be Black, Asian, Latinx, Latino, Latina, and everyone else who wouldn’t fall into the bucket of white. And so I love culture, you know traveling experiencing all of the things that I’ve experienced I love the richness that comes with culture and sharing our experiences and hearing people of different backgrounds and I believe that when we don’t see more people of color on the stage we are robbing and depriving ourselves of some very valuable information and very valuable experiences that could help to support and magnify everyone, magnify the whole. And so that’s why I do the work that I do specifically with supporting thought leaders of color, because when more leaders of color are seen on more stages and highly paid for their message, then that’s truly when everyone wins.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Another thing that you put on LinkedIn that I really loved is that ‘it’s time to reconstruct an industry that has been starving due to the lack of representation of diverse voices on the stage.’ It’s a starving industry. And I mean, boy, I think most of us experienced that lack of diversity. And I think what we, many people have started to see in the last few years, namely since 2020, is more performative representation, right, of like checking the box of having a diverse lineup and whatever that may look like, which can often be quite questionable about whether it’s diversity or not. But I’m wondering when you talk about starving, and I know you just hit on this a little bit, I’d love even more like juiciness around that. I’ve like, what is, what are we missing? What’s missing from the diet when we are not having all of that representation on the stage?

 

Danielle Tucker:

How I would answer this is that distraction can be a very, distraction can be a very tricky thing. And when I say distraction, what I mean is we can oftentimes be distracted by the things that are in front of us on a day-to-day basis that we completely miss the important things that are truly going to help make the world, everything that makes life wholesome and rich and good, like being distracted by the things that are right in front of us can cause us to miss out on some really important things that really are necessary to create real impact and transformation in the world. And so it’s really easy, like I said before, like if you’ve grown up in a bubble or if you’ve been in your own space for so long, specifically the speaking industry, If we only hear one message, one type of perspective, it further solidifies that foundation of distraction that could ultimately be keeping us from really powerful solutions. However, when I say that the speaking industry has been starving, that’s exactly what I mean, the lack of representation has been keeping us from some really powerful solutions that a more diverse group of people could be bringing to the table and could have the answers to. But if there’s no room or if there’s no intentional action taken to empower more leaders of color to share their unique perspectives, to give a different viewpoint on maybe like what they’ve seen growing up or like what they’ve seen from their experiences, then how can we all be expected to work together to bring our, you know, to craft solutions that will be beneficial to the whole? And so from a speaking perspective, when it comes to the industry, it’s starving because when there’s not a diverse group of people that are sharing their perspectives, it really doesn’t serve everyone as best as it possibly could.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

And you said you’ve been doing this since 2018, whether as vocally as you are now, but that you have that view over the last five years and the pre-2020 and post-2020 view on this sort of industry and the speaking world. What changes have you noticed as far as representation over these last five years? Kind of what’s the state of the industry now?

 

Danielle Tucker:

There’s definitely been changes made, but there’s still a lot of work to be done, I would say. I think, man, a lot has happened over the past few years. We’ve had the pandemic, we’ve had, you know, Black Lives Matter, a lot of awareness has come forth. And I think a lot of people, whether they are a person of color or allies, a lot of people have been very touched and outraged, you know, by a lot of the different things that have happened over the past few years. And so in the midst of that, I think there’s been a lot of eye opening for people. I think also there’s, I would say there’s been a number of two things. One, more leaders of color have become even more emboldened to share their message and to really walk in that confidence that they’ve always had, were just afraid to do. And I think, you know, we, over the pandemic, we’ve really, you know, I think it’s really shined a light on how precious life is and how important taking action in the now really is. And so I think that’s given a lot of speakers a lot more confidence and drive to use their voice in more intentional ways. And on the other side of it, I think, you know, for one, there’s always like performative part of it, but which you know, that’s that’s not the most desirable outcome, but then there are also people who are who genuinely want to see more representation within the speaking industry and for those individuals, I would say, we’ll say allies so white allies, who may see that the stages that they’ve been on are the people that they’ve been connected with like it’s not very diverse have been even more intentional with seeking out people of color, seeking out talent to hire, seeking out speakers to hire, excuse me, seeking out diversifying their network so that more diverse speakers can be featured in a way that is really going to shift this industry in a really positive way. So there’s definitely been some change and there’s still a good deal of work to be done.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I want to hit more on some of those like real practical strategies for white people in a minute, but we’ll get to that in a little bit. So first, I want to talk about the problems, the challenges, the barriers that have gotten us to where we are. And then we can talk about opportunities and possibilities. So what are some of the unique challenges that folks who have any sort of marginalized identity face when it comes to getting booked? That’s one piece, right? And then getting, and getting paid well.

 

Danielle Tucker:

One of the biggest challenges that I would say is that the speaking industry is largely based on referral. So if you have, let’s say you have an event organizer who has a very narrow network of people that they always want to refer to, you’ll find that you see a lot of the same faces, a lot of the same messaging, a lot of just the same old stuff on the stage. And that’s exactly what I want to shake up. So for people of color and for anyone with a marginalized identity, that can be a challenge, especially if you find that just like from people that I’ve worked with, and this is not something new, I hear this quite frequently, that there are people who are overly qualified. They have the experience, they have the audience, like they have the community and the network built up, yet they would find themselves not being booked for as many opportunities as as their white counterparts. And that’s largely because people were just wanting to refer to the people that were in their inner circle and that was that, like they didn’t wanna do any extra work there. And so that’s probably one of the biggest challenges that I’ve seen is, you know, feeling like you’re doing a lot of the work, the heavy lifting, the effort, and still not seeing the outcomes that you would want, yet feeling like it’s just handed who may be in someone’s network that you know, you know, it’s just, it’s like a, it’s a very, it’s an unfortunate thing and I don’t think that it’s going, it has to stay that way and I don’t think that it will stay that way. I think that things are changing, but that’s what I would say is probably one of the biggest challenges for anyone with a marginalized identity within the speaking industry is like how the dynamics of things work in terms of like the referrals and things like that.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Luvvie Ajayi Jones in her book, Professional Troublemaker, talks about speaking. And one of my favorite things that I got out of that book was about how people, particularly people who have any sort of marginalized identity, you need to find your group of people that you can talk to and share numbers with. And that’s something that we’re not conditioned to do. We don’t talk about money in polite society, but that holds us back because women not knowing what the men are getting paid or what other women getting paid or people of color not knowing what their white counterparts are getting paid, then we don’t have the information we need to show up and advocate for ourselves, right? And so sharing these things can be really powerful. So I’m wondering when you think about how do you begin to then expand your network or use your network in a more thoughtful way? Or like, what are some of the first steps that you could take to break through some of these barriers?

 

Danielle Tucker:

I love that question. The first thing that I would say is, for one, I think there’s a number of different facets to consider with this. I think one is definitely self-ownership of your own brand, self-ownership of putting out there what you believe because like attracts like. And when you can confidently communicate what you believe, your values, like how you want to show up and what change you want to see in the world, you’ll find that you’ll naturally attract your people. And so I think that’s the first thing that I would say. Secondly, it can be very intimidating to reach out and connect with individuals who you may find to have common interest with, or you may see potential to have a really powerful networking relationship. And so I think having even more practice with being able to initiate and have those conversations to get to know people. I’ve heard, and this is something I believe, to something that I saw someone recently post on LinkedIn. It’s like a coffee chat is one of the most powerful things you could possibly do for your business because it gives the invitation to have a conversation, a really natural way to get to know someone, not just from a business perspective, but to know them as a person. And so really creating more opportunities, one, for yourself to be visible, putting yourself in more spaces to where, whether you’re doing a live, or you’re speaking on a podcast, or you’re creating your own stage in that way is a really powerful way to attract more of the people who resonate with what you believe. But then also making it a point to network, to connect with people, and do it in a way that is personable, to where it doesn’t always have to be about business stuff. I mean, I’m sure it will evolve into that because business encompasses our lives in a number of different ways but just being willing to initiate and to have conversations because it’s one thing to have a conversation and to build a relationship, but it’s another thing to build real, wholesome, genuine relationships. And I think that is what we all want and that’s what we need is something that is wholesome.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I think about our relationship that is forming here. And one, what you talked about with putting your values out there and like attracts like, I have been doing more and more of that over the many years. And I recognize that that has begun that that has shown up in my social media feeds. Like I am curating that for myself, but also the algorithms begin to figure out who you’re going to like. And so I found you someone that I know who I share values with commented on one of your posts on LinkedIn. And then I saw you and read what you’re up to and was like, ooh, we sound like we have shared values. So that’s the first piece is that like attracts like, and I fully believe that. But you’re right. If you’re presenting a view of yourself, that’s not who you really are. You’re going to be getting, you’re going to have this attraction to people who are also not really where you want to be. So I love that. And then on the networking piece of it, I reached out and was like, hey, this isn’t spam, I swear. But also I recognize and one, like I think for women as a whole, we have been very conditioned to be polite, to be kind, to not be a burden to anyone, right? All of these things that can be barriers for us doing those initial outreach. I hear it again and again from my clients that just this lack of confidence, oh, I don’t want to be a bother. I don’t want to be a burden. They won’t like me. They don’t know me. I’m not confident enough, right? So that’s a barrier. But then I also recognize that I have a lot of privilege, unearned privilege, because of the color of my skin that buys me more safety that other folks wouldn’t have. I’m a cis woman and I’m straight presenting and I have white skin. All of those things give me immense amounts of privilege to feel that confidence and comfort to be able to reach out to a stranger and say, I can introduce myself and not have the fear of what might happen, especially when I’m reaching out to someone who’s not a man. That’s still a barrier for me often. But I wonder, you’re working with clients all the time around these kinds of issues of building their brand, of getting that confidence when it comes to landing speaking gigs and that networking piece is a big part of it. What comes up for you when I talk about safety in networking? Because I think that’s a big barrier for a lot of people is that not feeling safe. And that keeps us from doing a lot of things and not like confidence, which is something that I think is internal, the safety piece is external, you know? So I don’t know, I just wonder what comes up for you when you think about that.

 

Danielle Tucker:

This is such a great question. When I think of safety, and you’re right, safety is different than confidence. You can be confident and still not feel 100% safe. And so what I love to encourage myself to do and for others to do is to get very clear on what are your boundaries? Like, what are you available for and what are you not available for? And I think understanding what that looks like for yourself gauge to determine what type of interactions you want to have and how safe you want to feel. And I also truly do believe that feeling safe in the speaking industry and even just being visible is, there’s more to just, there’s more to it than just saying oh we’ll just be visible, oh we’ll just do this and do that. Like no like there’s a lot of there are many layers to this so I also think it’s very important to acknowledge that and to say like, it’s not just about confidence. It’s really a lot deeper than that. But I have found to really take that time to assess and know for yourself, like what are my boundaries that help me to feel grounded and that helped me to feel safe? And if I ever feel like that boundary is being crossed, then we need to have a very serious evaluation about like is this the right next step for me? You know, so, and also it ties back to your point regarding values. You know, does this align with my values? Does this align with what I believe in and how I think things should be done? And if not, then that should be a really great tool or assessment to really gauge on whether different opportunities or different relationships are ideal for you. I think safety can be, there’s like this perception, like we have like the perception of like what feels safe and like what is not safe. And I have found also in like my unlearning process, learning and unlearning, like some things that I believed were not safe, were actually more safe than I initially believed. And so sometimes you don’t know until after the fact, till after you’ve experienced certain things, till after you’ve seen it on the other side of, you know, doing it to where you realize like, oh, this was not what I anticipated, or oh, wow, this was a lot more refreshing than I thought. So I think a lot of it does come with experience as well, but overall having boundaries in place is like a really solid place to start.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Well, and you’re right because that safety piece, while I say it’s external, it is in some ways, you’re right that it’s a combination of internal and external because sometimes it is external. It’s just not safe, right? And there are other times where it’s not safe because of where you’re at in your own unlearning and learning process. And some of that is the boundaries. Like if you don’t yet have the ability or the knowledge or the comfort in setting and enforcing boundaries, then a lot of things won’t be safe that could be, but even if they weren’t that you could make more safe because of that. So I love that mindset shift, thank you, because that’s always good to get. And you also said, I just, I’m gonna read your LinkedIn to you over and over again, ‘building your thought leadership as a person of color comes with its own hurdles, mindset shifts and challenges, like unlearning the societal messages to be seen and not heard and sometimes not even seen.’ And so when you think about like either yourself and or like clients you’ve worked with, people of color that you’ve worked with, I’m just curious, like, what are some of the examples of that, like what are some of the things that you or they or both have had to do, like had to unlearn and relearn in order to have that confidence, because it’s not just about speaking. You also talk about thought leadership as a whole, which is just even using your voice in the written form, if you’re not yet ready for speaking, but what is that unlearning process? What are some of the things that you tackle with clients that are pretty common issues for them?

 

Danielle Tucker:

I would say a deep sense of inadequacy is probably one of them. Just feeling like your voice doesn’t matter, what you have to say isn’t going to change things, so why even try? That I would say is probably one of the biggest things. And that, and I speak in regards to my clients, but I also speak for myself, because this is a constant work in progress for me because, you know, committing to be more vocal, committing to share what you believe and to be visible can feel like a lot. It can be very energy draining, especially if you are stepping into a new space that you may not have previously been comfortable in. And so when it comes to this unlearning and also like putting yourself into a place to where you are being more seen, to where you are being more vocal, I found that you know this feeling of inadequacy of like oh I really don’t know that much or, oh no one wants to hear what I have to say, or is this really going to help anyone, is like the thought that comes up that then impacts the actions of actually choosing to be visible.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I mean, I see that in my clients all the time, too. And the idea that who am I to say that I’m an authority, right? Or I’m an expert, those kinds of terms that when we think of thought leadership or terms that we would use like you to be able to present yourself as the an authoritative voice on your subject to say I am an expert on this, there’s something about that elevating ourselves that feels so intimidating and that we don’t deserve it. We haven’t earned it by the conventional standards that people would say, like, maybe I don’t have a degree in that. That can be something that really holds people back. I haven’t been working in this field for 30 years. I haven’t made a certain amount of money doing this. There’s all these markers that we use to somehow measure ourselves when really it’s like some of it’s the 10,000 hours or just the amount of, you know, how much time you have spent learning on your own. And so I see that all the time too. And I think like there’s the part of that that is the internal and then there’s that external of being met with people who will receive you as, with that question, with that doubt, which I think anyone who is non-male immediately has that one barrier and that level of questioning. And I feel like each additional level of like non-white, you know, non-cis, non-straight presenting, disabled, each of those layers you add on seems to add another layer of the external doubt that comes at you. And I just think it’s important that, because I think too much of what we see out there focuses on the internal battle, makes it a highly individual issue as if it’s only your fault. And I just think it’s so important because, I don’t know if you’ve had this experience, but for me with a lot of my clients, just the validation, the honoring of ‘this is real.’ These are real barriers that you’re facing. It’s not just in your head. It’s not just if you get confident. These are real barriers that you may be facing. That somehow begins to strip away some of that because I think we’ve all been gaslit so much to believe that oh no, it’s not out there. It’s just us. We’re the problem. And when you finally have somebody who just says, no, you’re right. That is real. That goes a long way. And I’m just wondering, have you experienced that with people too? Is that a big part of your work is the witnessing and the validating and helping them see like, you’re not imagining this?

 

Danielle Tucker:

Yes. Yeah, the gaslighting, man. It’s real. But yeah, like, I think it really helps to know, like, some of the people who you may see online, who seem like the most confident, like, put together people, they deal with it too. And for me, I think that has also helped to give me some encouragement for myself, when it comes to being more visible, being more vocal, being seen, to know that it’s not just It’s not just the people that you don’t see who are suffering from these feelings of inadequacy or feelings of not enoughness. The only difference from people who you see on a constant basis and the people that you don’t is a choice to be visible and to share your message regardless of how you feel on the inside. That is what I would say is the only difference. Like oftentimes when I’m sharing my perspective or when I’m choosing to say yes to being in a different environment, like I still feel all those emotions. Like I still have those thoughts that go through my head. And I think a really, really valuable skill to cultivate is to separate your feelings and your thoughts from your actions.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Your feelings aren’t facts. Thoughts aren’t even facts. Yes, I totally agree.

 

Danielle Tucker:

That is such a powerful skill set to be able to cultivate because when you know that you feel a certain way, but you don’t tie it to your thoughts and you know that you can still take action in a different way, even regardless of the thoughts that are coming into your mind. And even this, I’ll take it a step further. Being like observing vs. judging what it is that you’re seeing or feeling like, just observing and being like, hmm, that’s interesting, that’s an interesting thought. Like, let me, is this true? Like, let me question this. Is this truly accurate? And really looking at it from a place of just observation instead of fact or instead of running with it as like, oh, well, no one wants to hear what I have to say. But instead like is questioning like, is this true? I think that’s like really what I know has helped me to build this confidence and even like encourage myself that yep, let’s go ahead, let’s do this. And the cool thing is after you’ve done it, you feel really good about yourself because you see the outcome on the other side and it’s a lot more beautiful than what you may have been imagining in your head from the start.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Yeah, I love that you mentioned too that everyone you’ve experienced feels this because everyone I’ve experienced deals with Imposter Syndrome. I don’t love that term for a lot of reasons because it makes it sound like it’s a disease, and again that it’s just you. And there’s all the systemic things that make it outside of you as well. But those feelings of that lack of confidence, the self-doubt, I see it in everyone. And this makes me again think about privilege because there is privilege, I’ve had privilege to be inside of spaces with people who I see as being beyond me, you know, above me, more followers have done more things, whatever it is, right? And I’ve had the privilege to be able to be inside of those rooms to have networks where I can witness people that I respect and admire and say, oh, they feel these things too. But that’s a privilege that comes with the networking issues and the who you know and access that can be, you know, denied to many people. And so I think it makes me think of something that’s been coming up in a lot of these episodes, which is about the collective experience of change, and that feminism is really feminism when it’s collective and that change at the individual level is important and insufficient for transformation to happen, to break down these systems, to really make change that actually creates a more equitable world. We need a collective experience and part of that, that’s community, right? And this is part of that. So like when you think about speaking and confidence, part of the change becomes about the collective experience. Being able to be in rooms with other people and share about your fears, share about the money you’re making, share resources, talk about opportunities. That is what helps enrich all of us, lift us all up. And so I wonder like, what has it been like for you creating your own network and getting community? And like, do you have tips for people on, I know we talked a little bit about networking, but like maximizing your community. Cause I think sometimes people think they don’t have a community when in fact they do already. They just aren’t cultivating that community. community. They aren’t really utilizing it yet. And I’m wondering if community has helped you in your own path or your client’s path.

 

Danielle Tucker:

I’m very particular about the type of people I have within my inner circle, just because I firmly believe that you should surround yourself with people who truly get you, who are ready to cheer you on, and can also edify you to encourage you when you get to those places where you’re just like, okay, well, screw this, you know? It’s important.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Well there’s that safety again. Like you need your community to feel safe, right? You have to be safe to be vulnerable in the way we’re talking here. So I absolutely agree with that.

 

Danielle Tucker:

When it comes to cultivating that space, honestly for me, it hasn’t been something that’s always been easy. And it’s something that I’ve definitely prayed about many times because I wanted to see, I wanted to attract, I wanted to see those wholesome, healthy relationships be more abundant in my life to have those specific people, whether that’s people of my personal life or family, but more specifically I wanted to see more business connections, like people who I could really lock arms with and really relate to in business. And that actually has not always been easy for me. I would say maybe up until recently to where I got even more intentional about wanting to have more connections and relationships with people who could encourage me. But also who I could encourage as well and how we could bounce ideas off of or even just learn from our different experiences. So I would say for anyone who is thinking about, man, I would love to to lock arms with people. I would love to have a more diverse network, or I’d love to have people within my inner circle who I can really relate and connect with. I would say the first thing is to get clear on what do you want those types of relationships to look like? What are your expectations? What are your boundaries? How do you see that exchange happening? What do you see yourself giving and getting out of that relationship? I think when you can really get clarity on that, it makes it a lot easier to know if it’s a yes or if it’s a no whenever you do have people coming in and out of your bubble on a day-to-day basis. That’s what I would say.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I’m thrilled that you said intentionality. Intentional is my word of the year, and it’s something else that keeps coming up. You put things out in the world, and they keep coming back, and that attraction of that, because I agree, this year I have been really intentional about networking and about growing my own community. And it has been fraught with lessons, hits and misses, and learning that Google thinks ‘feminist’ and ‘woman’ are synonymous and they’re not, like trying to find spaces to be in and the challenge and you know, ending up in a lot of girl boss spaces when that’s not what my feminism looks like and trying to find, you know, really diverse and inclusive spaces. So anyway, I get it, like it’s hard and I do think you have to be prepared for a lot of like challenges and spending time in spaces that aren’t right, but that’s part of that process, I think, of identifying what you do want. Sometimes you have to know what you don’t want to find what you do want. So I love that advice. And I want to come back now to what we hinted at earlier around what allies, folks who are, who hold any sort of privileged identity, if they’re wanting to do better, either in the ways that they support their peers who have some marginalized identities in helping them, you know, helping to uplift them to raise their voices to help in that way, or who have some of the keys to the rooms, to say I’m hosting an event. I’m looking for speakers. How do you begin to think about these issues in a way that is not just checking off a box, right? And I would think most people listening to this aren’t interested in just checking off boxes. We want to do better, but I know that it can be challenging because, sadly, I think many of us have the experience of being in rooms that look like us. And so then when it comes time to try and say, I want to elevate voices of color, maybe I don’t have as many. Now I will say that I fully recognize that also means you haven’t been putting yourself in the right rooms, and you need to do better in putting yourself in the right rooms. But I also know that can be a challenge. So I’m curious what you know what you have to share in that way.

 

Danielle Tucker:

There are a few pieces that I want to share, which I think the first is probably the most, I don’t wanna say obvious because it might not be obvious to most people, but what I would say, the first thing that I can think of is just really being intentional about looking for how you can continue to, let’s say if you’re an ally and you do have a stage or a space to where you can invite more individuals with a marginalized identity, taking that responsibility upon yourself to be like, you know what, I want to create a space to edify more of these voices, and just making that an intentional part of your practice. And again, intentionality, when you’re intentional about it, you’ll start to see that things fall into alignment based on the intention that you’re setting, and the outcomes that you want to see with that experience. I would say that would be the first thing. Secondly, in terms of thought leaders of color specifically, for anyone who’s looking for any thought leaders of color, speakers of color, there is one resource that I wanna share, it’s the Black Speakers Network. It’s from one of my friends, Brian J. Olds, he founded it and it’s a fantastic network where there are thousands, I would say, of speakers there who are ready, trained, available to speak. So I did want to put that out there. And I’m sure there are other networks, but that’s the first one that comes to mind in terms of like if you’re looking to create a more diverse stage, or if you’re wanting to look for like different speakers who, you know,

can bring that flavor to your events, like definitely looking in networks like that and reaching out and saying like, hey, like I’m looking for a speaker who can speak XYZ and they’re more than happy to provide some recommendations and people who would be the best fit for whatever you’re looking for. So that’s what I would say in that regard.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I love that. And thank you for the resource. And I feel neat now, like I want to also mention that obviously we’re talking a lot about people of color because that’s really where your expertise lies and where you’re focusing. But obviously, if we’re talking about diversity and inclusivity, that means that we need to be thinking about all identities and are we representing them on the stage, right? So making sure that we’re thinking about, first of all, things like culture or race and those issues, gender, gender expression, also things like disability, which is an area that I think gets overlooked so much and thinking about, you know, am I representing that as well? So thinking about all of the things, I love that you included that network as well as a place to go and look. And it makes me think, the other thing that came up for me is thinking about what are we asking people of color or of any identities to be speaking about? Because the other thing I see that’s happened a lot is the way of including other voices is to have them speaking on just these topics, right? Asking people to only be speaking about DEI issues or only be speaking about disability issues and remembering that there are experts on all topics of all colors and of all you know shapes, sizes, you know, representative of everyone. So I’m wondering if you have any experience or thought on that as well because I think that’s a common issue I see.

 

Danielle Tucker:

Oh yes. Oh yes. Yeah, it’s annoying, I guess, to be kind of boxed into being a DEI speaker just because of the color of your skin. And I think it’s important to really, for any allies who are wanting to have more people of color and not just, we are speaking about anyone of a marginalized identity but I would say, like for the context of your question, like DEI, like, you know, I would say really ask, like, why, you know, are you just wanting to have them be in that space because of the color of their skin? Or like, are they an actual expert in that field? And I think really getting clear on and seeing like, there are so many diverse, you know, experts in a number of different niches that have so many different experiences. And recognizing that I think is very important to have like a really well-rounded, to create a really well-rounded experience and to experience or to create that experience of more diversity with people who are in a marginalized identity, who have marginalized identities. So that’s what I believe.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

As somebody with a lot of privilege, I just want to also share a couple of things that I do and that who knows if they’re right or wrong, but that I feel like are my little ways of trying to contribute, which is one, I make sure that I ask anytime I’m asked to speak and I get asked to speak at a lot of, you know, events and summits, I’m always asking what they’re doing to ensure that there will be a diverse lineup and that they’re focusing on diversity, what that looks like. I want to make sure that they’re being challenged and asked. And I want to participate in events that are really making an effort because I think that’s important. We need to remember that what we lend our name to is reflective of our values. And so thinking about walking that talk in that way. And I also maintain a list of people I know, women of color specifically, and women of all marginalized identities, that I can also say if they haven’t been confronted with this question or haven’t been thinking about it, I offer up voices. That’s part of that elevating other voices saying, I know some amazing people. What are you looking for someone to speak about? I love the idea of going and looking at these other resources that are out there, but I think that’s a nice way for allies to try to also elevate voices is think of other people that you can suggest. Let’s bring other people along with us, right? It doesn’t have to just be about centering ourselves. So I think that those are some things that people can try. Now let’s talk generally about speaking, right? Cause I think we have been focusing a lot about like the challenges of marginalized identities, but just generally, you know, for feminist founders, people who are wanting to be the authority in their industry, you know, once we get past some of these other barriers and say, ok I’m feeling like I’m ready to take the step. I’m ready to put my voice out there. What are some of the first things that you tell people to focus on if they’re really trying to be a thought leader? I don’t know if it’s the ways they’re using their voices, the places they’re doing it, or the message they’re creating, but what are the first things that are most important?

 

Danielle Tucker:

I would say some of the things that are most important are to get very clear on what I call your core value proposition. So essentially, who you are, who you serve and what outcome you empower your audiences to experience. From a event organizer perspective, this is like one of the number one things that they are looking for is like, what makes you different from the next person that may have pitched for the same exact engagement. And so your job as a speaker is to really put yourself in a position to where you can communicate your value from a place of like this is who I speak to, these are the outcomes that you can be expected to receive as a result of hiring and working with me. And when you can really articulate and communicate that, that’s pretty much the golden standard right there. Like getting super, super clear on communicating so that event organizers know very clearly who you are and expect to see as a result of hiring you and booking you to speak.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

And I think that can be so challenging for people to do for themselves, because it can feel for a lot of people in the way that we’ve been conditioned to think about this, it can feel very like egocentric and braggadocious, right? These things that these things we learn when we’re young, like trying to learn how to navigate the line between confidence and having a big head, right? Which is a line that I don’t think white men often worry about or have been have been conditioned to have like a differentiation. But for the rest of us there’s usually this like, oh, I can’t be, I want to be confident, but then you start to feel confident, you start to feel like, oh, but that sounds, who am I to talk that way, right? So I think that can be a really challenging thing. And I imagine that might be the kind of thing where working with someone else could be helpful because having someone outside of you reflect back what they see can sometimes feel, I mean, I’ve had that experience where it’s like, oh, that’s, that is what I do. Or that is how I show up. Or that is, I do help people in that way, but I kind of need someone else to say it so it doesn’t feel so much like having an ego. Is that what you find too that hiring and getting help in this is really helpful?

 

Danielle Tucker:

You know, it’s very helpful. And also another thing that I’ve have always found to be helpful for me and for my clients that I work with is creating an evidence list. So one of the biggest challenges that I find a lot of times is talking about yourself can feel very, like exactly what you said, like egocentric, like it can feel a little kind of icky for people at first, but it’s also very necessary if you are going to put yourself in a position to say like, hey, I am available to speak. like hire me to speak. So you have to be able to do that. And one thing that I found to be really helpful is creating an evidence list. A lot of times people may feel kind of limited, like they feel like, oh, I don’t have enough experience in this, like going back to the feelings of inadequacy, like, oh, I don’t, you know, I haven’t spoken in X number of stages, or I don’t have as much experience, or blah, blah, blah, but I guarantee you, every single person I’ve talked to, when I ask them, hmm, have you had at least one person share with you the impact that you have made on their life just from talking with you or just from from working with you in some capacity? And they’re like, you know what? Yes, I have. And so going back to what I call your evidence list, which is a list that I create of people that I’ve worked with or kind words that people have said to me, things that, maybe something I shared with them, whether that be a resource or knowledge or just encouragement that really helped to change someone’s life. I always go back to their share. I always take myself back whether you have it saved in a folder on your computer or you have it up in your head as like a memory, just remind yourself of that evidence list of how awesome you are. And then that usually makes it a lot easier to be like, you know what, I did do that, didn’t I? Let me go ahead and share that because that is fact, like that actually happened. It’s not something that is imagined or like you’re like trying to make up to make yourself feel like you’re greater than or whatever like whatever mind games we we play with ourselves but like creating but Long story short creating an evidence list and going back to that is really helpful to kind of ground us and be like, oh wait Yeah, I actually am really that awesome. Let me make sure I share that.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I think sometimes too, we think about speaking as the way that we’re showing ourselves as a thought leader, or if that is the goal, I want to get on more stages, I want to get paid for my thought leadership. We think that that’s the only evidence. But sometimes it’s just about doing it and finding ways right now to start using your voice, right? And then what I find is when people start to do that, often they start to get feedback. They get that evidence as you’re saying of like, oh, what I say can be helpful. So rather than waiting until you’re getting paid for it, which is a great goal and yes to all the money, but before that, like, how can you start using your voice now? What are, you know, what do you tell people about like, just showing up now as a thought leader before you’re getting paid? What should people be doing?

 

Danielle Tucker:

I am a big believer in creating your own stage. So like I believe I mentioned this before, but doing a live broadcast is a really great way to create your own stage, especially with the popularity of LinkedIn Live, Facebook Live, Instagram Live, like there is no excuse at this point. If you have a phone, if we are privileged to have a phone and you have something to say, you can create your own stage. So again, like I do recognize that there is privilege in saying that and also I feel like if there is for those who are listening for those who do have a device of some type they do have a way to where they can share their message in a way that could be helpful for somebody. So that would be the first thing is like really looking into how can you continue to create your own stage whether that’s hosting your own workshop, doing a live, or even collaborating with someone via guest podcasting, or even with collaborating via a live broadcast on social media. So that would probably be the main recommendation that I give is just taking that first step to create your own stage. Because again, there are so many speakers who get booked just from being on podcasts. It’s amazing. And it’s all because they made a choice to use their voice in a way, like even before getting on a physical stage. People want to get to know you. From an event organizer perspective, they want to be confident that the people they’re bringing to their audience and the people that they’re paying to speak, they want to feel confident in knowing or at least have some sense of who you are and what you believe and what better way to do that than to create your own stage virtually.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Yeah, get started. Just do something, right? Just show up and do something. And if you’re the kind of person who feels like I need that external help to do this because I still am feeling shaky in my confidence, I’m still not quite sure what I would talk about. That’s something I hear all the time. Like, yeah, I’m an expert in these things, but I’m not really sure how to translate that into a 30-minute talk or a one-hour talk, what does that look like, or you know all of the things that come up when someone’s looking to hire someone what do they like what what do you do for them what is someone like you you or someone like you what do you do to help people what can they expect or what kind of help can people even find in this so they don’t have to go alone going back to that collective experience of change.

 

Danielle Tucker:

There are a number of different ways that someone can grow when it comes to positioning yourself as a speaker. So a lot of the work that I do is with the personal branding side of things and also the strategy of getting booked to speak. So like how do you position yourself from like a visual standpoint? How do you articulate your brand message so that when someone reads about you or hears about you they can immediately know oh this is what this person does, let me reach out. So it’s basically like communicating, having a clear communication so when someone sees you, hears you, or has your name to refer you, it’s very clear what you do so that your name and you know your face are connected with the right people, the right decision-makers. So there’s that part of it. I also want to clarify that I like to kind of describe the speaking industry in three different terms. So there’s technique, there’s strategy, and then there’s systems. So technique is often like the actual act of speaking, how you present yourself on the stage, how you move your hands, you know. So there are experts who specialize in like speaking coaching. So the actual act of using your voice, presenting, doing a presentation, speaking on a stage. So like that’s the technique side of things. Selling from the stage, that would be the technique. The strategy side of it, which is more so where my wheelhouse is, is how you are marketing yourself, how you are positioning yourself to be seen by decision makers as the number one best expert to be hired as a speaker. So this plays into your speaking assets, like your website, your media kit, your speaker reel video, there’s a number of different assets that play into your strategy, but they all are supportive in helping you to book highly paid engagements and free engagements as well. I mean, there’s a number of different strategies of how you can use speaking to grow your business, but the strategy part of it is very important. And then the other part of it is systems. So let’s say once you do start getting booked to speak, once you do start getting referrals and once the engine starts going, at this point you now have to have some automations and some systems in place to help you lean on so that when you are being visible, when you are speaking, traveling, supporting people in whatever capacity, you can trust that your business can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you so that you don’t have to worry about missing something or forgetting something really important that could lead to another opportunity. So having the technique, the strategy, and the systems are all important and there are a number of different type of experts that can help to assist in that way.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

And whatever expert you’re working with, making sure that they aren’t making shortcomings about you, making confidence issues about you, right? Find someone with whom you feel that comfort level, especially if you are not a white man, right? And even then, I mean, no matter who you are, find someone who doesn’t make you feel shameful or guilty or bad that this is your issue, that you’re not out there and not confident that can say, like that will validate you about those confidence concerns.

 

Danielle Tucker:

I’m so happy that you added that in because that’s also something that I hear a lot, is you know, because there are a lot of people out there in the speaking industry who are predominantly white males who have a very particular way of almost like guilting you into feeling like you have to do speaking in a certain way or you have to run your business in a certain And that’s just not true. And that’s exactly why I feel like also part of my journey is to help more feminist founders really understand that you can do things differently, you can share your voice and showcase the value that you bring to the table in a way that feels really aligned for you and accurately represents you as a speaker. So I think that is so important and I’m really glad that you made that point known as well.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

As a coach myself, it’s something I encounter a lot in my industry that there are just a lot of bad actors and a lot of people have been burned by coaching that takes this sort of highly individual approach and that everything is really on you. And that can be really damaging and harmful. So I just think it’s important to think about who we hire whenever we’re hiring help and when it’s hiring around speaking the same thing, because there’s going to be just as much damage done. And then I like to finish these things by asking two things. One, what is an educator, a book, a podcast, a resource that has been really helpful for you in your own journey on any of the things we talked about today owning your voice or running your business in a way that feels more inclusive any of that stuff I mean is there anything that’s been really powerful for you that you would want to share or even just something that you’re currently in using and that feels good.

 

Danielle Tucker:

One thing that comes to mind that I really appreciate is the “Do Less” book by Kate Northrup. It’s really great because the context of the book is about how you can use your cycle, your menstrual cycle, as a tool to navigate your energy, navigate how you do things in business, and really use it as your superpower. It’s something that I think has been really shamed, you know, and really something that’s been looked down upon, the beauty of a woman’s menstrual cycle. And so she talks about how you can use your cycle to gauge your energy and ultimately strategically navigate business in order to do less. So that is one book that I’ve really appreciated that I’ve been like really loving.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I love that. I think that’s, and I like that it’s kind of outside of the speaking stuff. It’s just something that’s been really helpful for you. And I think that although I’m somebody who’s getting close to the other side of the menstrual cycles, I do think there’s something really powerful. We’ve been told so much about how we’re emotional, right? And I think learning how to say like, I’m going to own this beautiful thing that makes me part of who I am, you know, something that’s part of who I am is really great. So thank you.

 

Danielle Tucker:

And I do have one more resource that was just off the top of my head, one one thing that I’ve been reading recently. In particular with speaking. I am actually a co-author within a book. It’s called “Speak Up, The Ultimate Guide in the Speaking Industry.” Now, that is a fantastic resource for anyone who is wanting a wholesome perspective on how to navigate the speaking industry. In my chapter, I talk about how to leverage your speaker website in order to get booked and paid to speak. And there’s also a number of different other perspectives and strategies within that book from all the other authors who share their perspectives, whether that’s like a speaking strategy, like the technique of speaking, or even like how to navigate the speaking industry, like anything you could possibly want to know about speaking strategy and positioning yourself as a speaker is in that book as well.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

Thank you for those resources. I love learning about new resources and I think people always like to find new things they can explore. The last thing I want to ask you about then is an organization that you support. What organizations do you like to support because I want to send a little thank you to an organization that means something to you, and I’m hoping that anyone who’s listening to this may also learn about a new organization that’s doing good work.

 

Danielle Tucker:

For me, one of the organizations that comes to mind is called First Stop. And I am, I have a really big heart for eliminating homelessness in the world. And so First Stop is a local organization. I live and am based here in Huntsville, Alabama, and they really focus on empowering people, not from a place of like victimhood or making people feel bad about their situation but really helping them to see the gold in who they are and providing resources that can help them to get to a healthier place within their lives. And so I just love, love, love, love that about them because I think oftentimes when it comes to thinking about homelessness and things like that, it can be a very, people can have their own perspectives or perceptions about it. And I really love how they bring respect to the table with all of their clients that they work with.

 

Becky Mollenkamp:

I love the approach they’re taking. And it’s interesting to me how so far the people I’ve been asking, there’s just been so many local organizations. And that’s where we make the biggest difference, isn’t it? When we start at home, and we can make the biggest impact. But even if you don’t live in Huntsville and you want to do something to help the issue of the unhoused or homelessness, and if you want to say thank you to Danielle for what she shared today, if you’ve learned anything from this episode, if it’s brought you some motivation or inspiration to start using your voice and go after those speaking gigs, please send something to First Stop in Huntsville, and I will include in the show notes how to do that, where you can find them. And I will also include in the show notes how you can learn more about Danielle and the work that she’s doing and go hire her as well. Thank you so much for your time, Danielle. I really appreciate it.

 

Danielle Tucker:

Yes, thank you so much as well, Becky. This was such a fun conversation, and I’m really excited to see everyone’s thoughts and hear everyone’s thoughts from everything we talked about today. So thank you.